Toribash
Original Post
Yay or nay genetic mutation.
For those who don't know ill sum it up. Genetic mutation is where scientists can change/enhance the sperm or egg of a human/animal to give it unatural genes. Scientists have been able to make cows born with muscles that are gigantic. Also change the type of milk cows produce. This can eventually lead to making every human to be born looking like a body builder. Thing is as of now scientists are making the animals in this case im speaking of cows pregnant several times to get the right result. Is it worth it to maybe be able to have humans be born healthier stronger hopefully eventually immune to some diseases at the cost of toying with cows and the lives of animals. Or are you even comfortable with changing the genes of a living thing toying with creation. For me it's a scary subject and I'm not all for it.
Let Natural selection take it's course. We're no better than any other species. We shouldn't try to alter ourselves in any way. It just doesn't seem right to me. We are what we are, and we will continue to be what we be. We shouldn't try changing that, we instead should better ourselves through knowledge, not science obtained by knowledge.
Valterain1 was defeated by hermaphrodite on Oct 17, 2015.
To stop this from turning into a big ethical debate, where nothing really get accomplished, perhaps we could focus on more objective pros and cons, i.e. the efficacy of it, side-effects... those sort of things.
I think the term you are looking for is 'genetic modification', not 'genetic mutation' ;)

Pros and cons? Let's look at a simple and recent example: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0115134624.htm
tl;dr using gm the lifespan of flies was increased 60%.
So let's say they use it on humans, and we live 60% longer. What exactly is the downside? Another example would be removing genetic disorders. How can that be a bad thing?

The thing with gm is that because you can choose, there is no downside. There is no pros/cons debate, there is only an ethical debate.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
There could be cons as if an experiment or operation is unsuccessful it can lead to the death of an animal or for them to live a dehabilitating life from then on,

Having said that I strongly support genetic modification especially as its mostly carried out on bacteria with no nervous system or level of conciousness
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig View Post
So let's say they use it on humans, and we live 60% longer. What exactly is the downside? Another example would be removing genetic disorders. How can that be a bad thing?

The thing with gm is that because you can choose, there is no downside. There is no pros/cons debate, there is only an ethical debate.

It's more than just ethics. How about it's effects on social stability? Even if it occurs in voluntary situations (and sometimes it won't), that doesn't shrink the debate to only including ethics.

On social stability, you're creating the haves and the have-nots, so now you've got another division in society. I'd imagine a whole bunch of people wouldn't have the money to utilise it (even more so, with the ever-growing income inequality), so images of class warfare come to mind.

It's great that you've got such a rosy picture of genetic modification, but I just think you haven't looked at any other pictures of it.

Originally Posted by apple123 View Post
Alright man lay the pros and cons down.

That's what the discussion is for. I'm no expert on it, so I'll learn more about it and bounce off everyone else. I'm more like Bruce Lee.
Originally Posted by Bruce Lee
"A teacher is never a giver of truth; he is a guide, a pointer to the truth that each student must find for himself. A good teacher is merely a catalyst."

Last edited by Ele; Feb 3, 2015 at 11:15 AM.
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
It's more than just ethics. How about it's effects on social stability? Even if it occurs in voluntary situations (and sometimes it won't), that doesn't shrink the debate to only including ethics.

On social stability, you're creating the haves and the have-nots, so now you've got another division in society. I'd imagine a whole bunch of people wouldn't have the money to utilise it (even more so, with the ever-growing income inequality), so images of class warfare come to mind.

It's great that you've got such a rosy picture of genetic modification, but I just think you haven't looked at any other pictures of it.

I don't think it's really a problem. Classes are always going to exist, people are already unequal. That downside can be applied to anything; "Oh look a new iphone, this is going to cause another division in society and class warfare!"
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig View Post
I don't think it's really a problem. Classes are always going to exist, people are already unequal. That downside can be applied to anything; "Oh look a new iphone, this is going to cause another division in society and class warfare!"

I think there's a big difference in the effect that the new iPhone has on social stability than the effect of the introduction of an entirely new way to discrimante against the poor.

"People are already unequal" isn't a good defence to the introduction of something that would make it worse. It's like saying "Screw it, it's already broke, let's burn this baby down". That's not a good attitude to have on social class and inequality.
Last edited by Ele; Feb 3, 2015 at 01:11 PM.
Originally Posted by Valterain1 View Post
Let Natural selection take it's course. We're no better than any other species. We shouldn't try to alter ourselves in any way. It just doesn't seem right to me. We are what we are, and we will continue to be what we be. We shouldn't try changing that, we instead should better ourselves through knowledge, not science obtained by knowledge.

We are the apex predator of the earth's biosphere, there's no natural selection for us. Everyone gets to further their genes, so in turn our gene pool will only degrade. We have to tamper with DNA if we want to advance.
Eliminating sickness, increasing cognitive ability and athleticism... these are all good things and should be pursued.
We are also objectively better than all the other species (you won't see a lion building nuclear weapons anytime soon).

We know how "natural selection" works, we've been selectively breeding species for thousands of years (for example: dogs, wheat, sheep or chicken wouldn't exist in their current form if it weren't for our tampering), but it's not possible to do with humans. I don't think any of you would like to be labeled as unfit for reproduction and have your dicks cut off, so this method is off the table.
What is left is gene modification.
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Also, on social effects of improved genes:

I'd suggest you all the movie "Gattaca" which tackles the same question Ele and Pig are on about. Eugenics will probably be brought back into fashion, and I'd not be surprised if "genetist" would be the new "racist" label. (Although this will only affect the US so bad, since in normal countries you could just make gene improvement mandatory at the state-run hospitals everyone goes to.)
You can't have the whole cake without an aching belly.
Last edited by ynvaser; Feb 3, 2015 at 12:42 PM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump