This is a response to the "Payment issues thread" that now seems to have fallen into a big bag of pain. . . I want to share with you an ALMOST unbiased view.

What I don't get is this payment "issue", I don't see it as an issue, if you think it's worth it then obviously you're going to buy it, if not then fair enough, that's all it boils down to really, and posting reasons that the developer can't/won't change is really just a way to make yourself feel better, coz it sure as hell isn't helping anyone else. We need to look at a few facts rather than individual reasons.

If the "Servers cost $300 a month" thing is true then that's strange because you could BUILD a more than competent server that you could run yourself after a few months of that.

To be honest it doesn’t matter how long he's been working on it, if it really is a side project of three years then he's obviously been using it as a way to further his own talent, or has been adding and perfecting it as said talent grows, as I know a few undergrads who have completed projects like this in a matter of months, that's not an insult so please don't take it as such, I'm simply proving the point that development time is irrelevant in relation to the value of the finished product (though it can be an indicator), it's quality that sells.

The price, and before anyone jumps in with their worthless comments about not knowing the value of this or not appreciating the value of that, I'm 19 and in about 14 days I’m going to Uni to Study Computer games Programming, I've written code (since I was 6) that I'm proud of, so I can appreciate this from the poor side and the developer side, and in my oh so honest opinion, it IS overpriced, To be very honest if it was left at the pre-order price. . .well that would still be stretching it, especially considering the work for free from others such as http://www.specialistsmod.net/ or http://frictionalgames.com/penumbra for example.

The comment that "Hampa is on his own he did this all on his own so he's allowed to charge more because he did it all on his own" is foolish, if you can't deliver stuff like the big boys then you don't get to charge like them either, I mean, Jesus Christ, the full price is MORE THAN HALF LIFE 2 EPISODE ONE, don't you think that's a little odd, Hampa?

While I can appreciate that he wants a return on the work he's done, I think that perhaps a bit of competitive pricing is in order, besides, if it's lower then it seems like more than a few forum goers would then buy it, but then that wouldn't be fair on the others who have already brought it. But hey, that's not my problem.

Despite it's shortcomings, I am seriously considering buying the game, the cost is absolutely no trouble for me, but I DO think that maybe someone needs to eat some humble pie http://www.tarkey.co.uk/Images/HP.JPG, or make a very serious commitment to improve the game from here on out, because that's the only reason I'm considering buying it, because I'm assuming that it will improve dramatically once it has generated some return/revenue.

Edit: Please, no Comments on this being my first post on this board, you are NOT your post count etc etc

I'll have to agree. 25 bucks is a bit much for something that has no gaurentee it would ever be upgraded from what it was realeased as. you also have to consider, how many people are gonna pay 25 bucks for it? even if its a quarter of the players we have now (i doubt that it'll be that high), how easy will it be to get a game going on the servers if no one is playing? do you really wanna play the same guy all night? I certainly get bored fighting the same person after 4 or 5 rounds

Thank you Tarks.

You have said what I have been saying, but about as concisely as I would have liked to. It's good to know that there are other people who share my views on the subject, and can deliver it in eloquence. The problem, I guess, is that I am just so exasperated about the whole thing. Like you, the price wasn't an issue for me, but I very nearly went and bought X3 instead, and truthfully, I probably would have gotten more fun out of it (HEAPS more content).

As stated, I also bought this banking on the fact that more features and things would be released.

Again, thank you for posting a cohesive and relevant argument.

Hopefully you won't get as irritatingly critisised as I did.

I agree with Tarks a lot here... $25 does seem high (recently, i have been waiting out game prices until they come down, or buying pre-owned to save money. I realize some games cost 40, 50 or even 60 bucks, and yes i've bought one recently (Disgaea 2, lol), but that's not my point) I like the preorder price, it feels much better, especially with the "all updates and newer version", but like previously mentioned, there's that nagging feeling that "if there will be any" is secretly hidden behind that. :/

However, I DO plan to buy this, and intend to do so... as a preorder, if i dont make it by then, i probably won't... :/

I've only had v1.99 for a week or two, and i'm hooked.

I only one question, can you still play multiplayer in the demo, or is that only for 2.0? I really don't mind all the mods and such, as long as i can laugh and comment on the movement and general wierdness of the characters with other people. :/ If there won't be any multiplayer in the demo when 2.0 comes out...well... that sucks...

Pretty sire there will be multiplayer. You just wont be able to join registered rooms, play on mod servers etc. There will be "demo" servers, for those wanting to experiance multiplayer.
Anyhow, there WILL be more versions of Toribash - if you don't want to believe it, then I can't stop you.
Remember that there has been a new release nearly every week for ages. Toribash has a very active development.

Cool, multiplayer just incase i am unable to preorder!

And as for the new versions every week... well... i've only had it for two, and have only seen one update.. so i didn't know this. :/ now i do. :/

ooh, how Exiting will the updates be?

Updates don't exit, mister bot.

And Half-Life 2 ep. one is bad to compare to anything.

Pros: A bit of story revealed.
Nice storyhanger in the end.
Keeps the grip on the story.

Cons:
Extremely overpriced. (the amount of work put to it... well, it should be around 5-9 bucks, not 19.99)
Ridiculously short.
Nothing really new.
Run do this run run do that run run wait for alyx to miss with the ridiculous aim and die load run run run do this and that... ponder what to do next due to ridiculous ''no i won't give you a hint'' system that can stall the gameplay suddenly due to no idea what to do/where to go.
The engine still really sucks.
And it's unstable
Steam (nuff said)

Poor little guy, latching onto one insignificant point and trying to run with it, not noticing the rope around his neck and the fast-approaching cliff.

I appreciate the other comments, speaking of multiplayer I'd love to be able to create a non-dedicated server from within the game, useful if you want to quickly setup a match, I hope the server software could be intergrated, (ignoreThis) maybe it would be as easy as reworking the "int main(int argc, char *argv[])" of the server it to use command line switches, which Toribash could then call and connect to locally.

I've just given myself a good idea for something unrelated.

--^ there we see a generic HL2 fan who only sees the pros of HL2 engine :P